Curse

lightblade · Jan 23, 2007, 09:14 PM // 21:14

It IS overpowered. SV vs any melee, the melee character will die first 100% of the time. There is no "skill" involved, SV is enough to kill.

ainkami · Jan 23, 2007, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lishi

if the spoil effect would be only disable a melee or a offensive caster that wont be so overpowered.

the probrem when its on a monk.

what he should do stop healing and leave him die?

yes, you are so right. nerf backfire too. why should i take 140dmg every time i use my orison of healing. 140 dmg is more than the spoil victor 100+ damage and there is no way i can out heal that much. I just want to spam my orison in peace. please please Anet, hear my plea, neaf backfire too.

lishi · Jan 23, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ainkami

yes, you are so right. nerf backfire too. why should i take 140dmg every time i use my orison of healing. 140 dmg is more than the spoil victor 100+ damage and there is no way i can out heal that much. I just want to spam my orison in peace. please please Anet, hear my plea, neaf backfire too.

let me see

mhh at 16 dom and 16 blood

what backfire have better then Spoil
1) backfire is not a elite
2) backfire do a little more damage
3) backfire work on any spell cast on everone.

what spoiler have better then backfire

Energy cost
1. backfire have 15 energy costs , last 10 second that mean 1,5 energy for second
2. - spoil have 10 energy cost last 33 second that mean 0,30 energy for second
Casting time
1. backfire have 3 second cast , consider the normal amount of fc a mesmer take it get reduced to 2 second
2. Spoil have 1 second cast time
Duration
1. Backfire last 10 second with 20 recharge. so you can keep it on a target about 50% of time
2. Spoil last 31 second with 10 recharge so you can keep it on 3 target all the time
Flexbility
1. Backfire work only on spells
2. Spoil work on warriors as well weakeing enemy offence and defence

as you see the Duration and Flexibility alone tell (energy and casting time are little weaker point) Spoil of victory is a better spell then backfire if you really want compare them. IMO the elite status on spoil of victory aren't enough to make up the difference

lightblade · Jan 23, 2007, 11:22 PM // 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ainkami

yes, you are so right. nerf backfire too. why should i take 140dmg every time i use my orison of healing. 140 dmg is more than the spoil victor 100+ damage and there is no way i can out heal that much. I just want to spam my orison in peace. please please Anet, hear my plea, neaf backfire too.

The simple answer:
- Backfire have longer recharge
- Backfire have shorter duration
- Backfire only work for spells

You can remove backfire and it won't be back for another 20 seconds, Spoil Victor can be kept on you the whole time as it have the same recharging rate as most hex removal

There is no way a monk can out heal SV's damage, only way to stop it is the player him or her self stop attacking and let the nec wand you to death.

gameshoes3003 · Jan 23, 2007, 11:45 PM // 23:45

Hex removals.... Sure you take a little bit of damage, but it's better than having that thing on you for another 20 seconds.
Also then keep a good eye on the necro, disrupt it if you can. Or you can start timing your hex removal and use it to where Spoil Victor will be off in less than a second before the necro can stack another hex.
As powerful as that annoying spell is, it's too easy to not take that much damage from it.

lightblade · Jan 24, 2007, 04:34 AM // 04:34

Cover hex and blah blah. Divert Hex and blah blah. OMG, they're nerfing Divert Hex?

Aeon_Xin · Jan 24, 2007, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameshoes3003

Hex removals.... Sure you take a little bit of damage, but it's better than having that thing on you for another 20 seconds.
Also then keep a good eye on the necro, disrupt it if you can. Or you can start timing your hex removal and use it to where Spoil Victor will be off in less than a second before the necro can stack another hex.
As powerful as that annoying spell is, it's too easy to not take that much damage from it.

You're totally right, glad to see someone in here who know's what's going on.

Casters have different skills to combat people. Their armor is less, they need to compensate.

A melee fighter however, has tons of interrupts and knockdowns to chose from.

lightblade,
Just because you want a build that has only skills that do extra damage and nothing more, doesn't mean it's wise.

gasmaskman · Jan 24, 2007, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Just because you can counter something doesn't make it overpowered.

Why do you people not understand this? You can counter grenth dervish with snares and blind, etc. but it doesn't mean it isn't overpowered. You can walk out of Sandstorm but that doesn't make it the best earth elite by being overpowered.

Aeon_Xin · Jan 24, 2007, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Just because you get owned by a certain skill doesn't mean it's over powered either.

Look at it this way, Say you do cancel it, and get in the casters face, he gets owned. Now you're overpowered, and he complains, you get nerfed.

Happy now?

gasmaskman · Jan 24, 2007, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon_Xin

Just because you get owned by a certain skill doesn't mean it's over powered either.

Look at it this way, Say you do cancel it, and get in the casters face, he gets owned. Now you're overpowered, and he complains, you get nerfed.

Happy now?

No, because the skill is still overpowered. I don't get "owned" by it - it's the simple fact it's overpowered. Just because you get owned by a skill doesn't make it overpowered, yes, but that doesn't change the fact that IT IS overpowered.

Aeon_Xin · Jan 24, 2007, 05:57 AM // 05:57

It's your opinon that it's overpowered, not fact, that decision is left up to Anet.

It's my opinon that people not smart enough, not willing to sacrifice attack for strategic skills, or even just not willing to learn, are a common source of complaints.(note the word complaint, not "valid reasoning")

Spoil Victor has plenty of triggers, attack or cast a spell, AND on a creature with less health. If you run away, or just simply switch target to a creature with more health, you will not take so much damage. Anything so simply countered strategicly(not to mention with another skill) cannot be overpowered.

You're not suppposed to hit frenzy and keep attacking. In a more realistic battle, the spells purpose isn't to do so much damage, it's purpose it to remove danger from the necromancer using it, by threatening so much damage. It shouldn't be any more life threatening(to a smart and observant player) than Spiteful Spirit is to a large group or any spell like Fire Storm.(don't stay grouped, don't keep attacking)

It's also an Elite-(definition snippets from webster-encarta and others)
"the best of a class"

"relatively small dominant group within a larger society, which enjoys a privileged status which is upheld by individuals of lower social status "

"1. richest, best, or most powerful:"

"2. A size of type on a typewriter, equal to 12 characters per linear inch."

From the GW page:
"The skills in a solid character build should work well together, and work well against the foes you expect to encounter. "

"The game is designed to reward player skill and teamwork"

lightblade · Jan 24, 2007, 06:03 AM // 06:03

The old saying is: "The best defense is a strong offense."

But SV completely changed this. The stronger your offense is, the faster you'll die.

fallot · Jan 24, 2007, 06:14 AM // 06:14

When did Guru turn into GWonline ? Spoil Victor lasts too long, that's all.

linh · Jan 24, 2007, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Discussing about skill balance in Sardelac will have only PvE or RA people in it. You should post in Gladiator Arena.
About SV : increasing recharge. 10s is insanely power for a mix of backfire, empathy with very high damage.

lightblade · Jan 24, 2007, 06:22 AM // 06:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by fallot

Spoil Victor lasts too long, that's all.

Another supporter

Quote:

Originally Posted by linh

You should post in Gladiator Arena.

I suspect there's already is a thread there.

-.- · Jan 24, 2007, 06:24 AM // 06:24

Fine as it is. There is no need to change it. Adapt or fall behind.

Aeon_Xin · Jan 24, 2007, 06:29 AM // 06:29

That "can" be true lightblade, but strongest doesn't mean most damage dealt.

The whole theory behind that is to be able to kill your enemy before he can damage you. Sv changed nothing. If you're face to face with a Fire ele and he uses firestorm(or similar), do you jsut stand there in it?

So, to sum up arguments.

1 It's not over powered. There are a plethora of things you can do to counter/avoid it, hex removal, caster intterruption, and don't keep brainlessly triggering the damage from it. It's damage is based on the choices that the recipient makes.

2 It is over powered. .... .....

lightblade · Jan 24, 2007, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by -.-

... Adapt or fall behind.

As in..."If you can't fight them, join them." This is pretty much what most people in HA are doing...copying other people's strong build...

Sry for the cliche..

Teger · Jan 24, 2007, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jecht Scye

Spoiled Victor is fine. I have it used on me all the time, it sucks but it isn't overpowered.

Its true that on, say,a derv who only attacks once every 1.75s it isnt overpowered....but on my sin, normally before I can break off the attack, Im down 200-400 hp

Aeon_Xin · Jan 24, 2007, 07:44 AM // 07:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teger

Its true that on, say,a derv who only attacks once every 1.75s it isnt overpowered....but on my sin, normally before I can break off the attack, Im down 200-400 hp

That' brings it down to picking the right targets and match strategy.

Make the necro your first target, not the healer*. You'll see when he's casting SV, and have ample time to pull off, or use an interrupt skill or whatever counter you favor.

*Not to say you personally attack the healer always first, just a popular choice*